ACP’s Roy Donovan is Irish Examiner Podcast guest
The Mick Clifford Podcast: Losing their religion – Roy Donovan
Roy Donovan, a priest and member of the Association of Catholics Priests is this week’s guest on the podcast.
Last week the Bishop of Kerry announced that the church in the diocese was facing further challenges this year with more retirements of priests scheduled.
So where stands the Catholic church in this country now in terms of serving its community?
Will, for example, congregations be expected to travel further to attend mass and confession?
Will there be a greater role for laity in the church?
And is there willingness within the current hierarchy for creative solutions?
Roy Donovan, a priest and member of the Association of Catholics Priests is this week’s guest on the podcast.
Link to podcast:
https://www.irishexaminer.com/opinion/commentanalysis/arid-41323396.html
I listened with attention and interest to the very positive dialogue in this podcast ‘Losing their Religion’ today and the optimism it offers for the synodal pathway. (I haven’t read the 84 page synod review document yet).
But I also listen to another Roy.
Roy Strong in his little gem of a book ‘A Little History of the English Country Church’ wrote: “Then, in 1552, the second Prayer Book implemented a complete break with the past – it introduced a communion service in which both cleric and congregation participated together. With the exception of the surplice all vestments were forbidden. The Holy Table which replaced the altar, was to be moved into the body of the chancel and placed in a north-south position for communion, for which the word Mass was finally dropped.” (p. 75)
Is what happened in English churches in 1552 – losing their religion, a guide to the future?
We know the very first project of Noah after the Flood was the building of an Altar (Gen 8.20). Noah knew from experience that tables float and tend to get washed away when waters rise high.
I’m not advocating a return to mass-rocks.
Peadar, maybe those innovations of 1552 were a huge success. The Church of England is still alive and kicking throughout the entire world, and it has produced a great line of saints, theologians, and poets that will live forever in Christian memory.
Joe, indeed, what you say is true i.e., Rowan Williams, Desmond Tutu, etc. On the threshold of recalling Nicaea 1 it might also be helpful to recall the words (after Ephesus) of Cyril to John of Antioch: We do not permit anyone in any way to upset the defined faith of the creed drawn up by the holy fathers assembled at Nicaea … Remove not the ancient landmarks which your fathers have set. (Prv 22:28)
See Loofs, Nestorius and his place in the history of Christian doctrine (1925), available on Amazon.com for $2 (Kindle) for the injustices done to Nestorius, both person and thought. Chalcedon was a posthumous vindication of Nestorius’s thought though personally he got no credit. The quote about ancient landmarks is often used but always ineffectually.
Is this similar/same, rediscovered in 1925?( A PDF is somewhere on the net): The Bazaar of Heracleides – Kiraz Theological Archive 75 (Hardback) Nestorius (author), G. R. Driver (author), Leonard Hodgson (author).
I see that Loofs’ lectures (which he gave in English) date from 1914, not 1925. I don’t know where I got the latter date. The lectures are very engaging and readable. https://archive.org/details/nestoriushisplac00loofrich/page/20/mode/2up
The topic is of ecumenical significance because of the “Nestorian” churches of the East.
Nestorius’s Bazaar of Heracleides is also online: https://archive.org/stream/DriverHodgson1925TheBazaarOfHeracleides/Driver+%26+Hodgson+1925_The+Bazaar+of+Heracleides_djvu.txt
It’s a Syriac translation because as an alleged heretic his works don’t survive except as quoted by opponents. Heracleides is probably a pseudonym and “Bazaar” is probably a mistranslation for “Tractate”.
The fragments of Nestorius were edited by Loofs in 1905 and this is also online: https://archive.org/details/nestorianadiefra00nest/page/12/mode/2up
William Dalrymple in his From the Holy Mountain (1997) tried to find his way into a refuge camp in Syria holding about 10 thousand ‘Nestorians’ incarcerated, having fled from Iraq. He was told ‘It was in Ealing (London) that the current Nestorian Patriarch was crowned… Ealing has the largest Nestorian community in Europe.’ (139-142) see also: RAQI ASSYRIANS IN LONDON: BEYOND THE ‘IMMIGRANTIREFUGEE’ DIVIDE at: https://www.anthro.ox.ac.uk/sites/default/files/anthro/documents/media/jaso26_3_1995_241_255.pdf