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Mary McAleese to Pope Francis -‘develop a credible strategy for the inclusion of women as equals’


Former president of Ireland tells pope to develop ‘credible strategy’ for women’s inclusion

Mar 8, 2018

by Joshua J. McElwee, Vatican

Mary McAleese, the former president of Ireland, has called on Pope Francis to develop a “credible strategy” to include women at every level in the Catholic Church’s global structure, saying their exclusion from decision-making roles “has left the church flapping about awkwardly on one wing.”

McAleese, speaking at the annual Voices of Faith event March 8, said the church “has long since been a primary global carrier of the virus of misogyny.”

“Today, we challenge Pope Francis to develop a credible strategy for the inclusion of women as equals throughout the church’s root and branch infrastructure, including its decision-making,” she told a packed crowd in a small hall at the Jesuit order’s Rome headquarters outside the Vatican’s walls but on the city-state’s territory.

McAleese, who led Ireland from 1997 to 2011 and is pursuing a doctorate in canon law at the Pontifical Gregorian University, said she wanted “a strategy with targets, pathways and outcomes, regularly and independently audited.”

“Failure to include women as equals has deprived the church of fresh and innovative discernment,” she said. “It has consigned it to recycled thinking among a hermetically sealed, cozy male clerical elite.”

Voices of Faith is an annual women’s storytelling event in its fifth year. This year’s event attracted more attention than usual after McAleese and the group’s organizers criticized the Vatican for reportedly withholding permission for three of its speakers, including McAleese.

Organizers said the decision about the speakers was made by Irish-American Cardinal Kevin Farrell, head of the new Dicastery for Laity, Family and Life.

At a book launch event earlier in the month, Farrell said events held within the Vatican are “presumed to be sponsored by the pope” and people assume “the pope is in agreement with everything that is said.”

He said after being told “what the event was about, it was not appropriate for me to continue to sponsor such an event.” But Farrell said while he could not sponsor the event, the church is “always open to listening and we are always open to dialogue.”

McAleese began her talk by acknowledging that the reforms of the Second Vatican Council have opened up new roles to laity in the church.

She said many of those roles “have simply marginally increased the visibility of women in subordinate roles … but have added nothing to their decision-making power or their voice.”

McAleese said the church’s ban on the ordination of women, articulated by Pope John Paul II’s 1994 apostolic letter Ordinatio Sacerdotalis, “has locked women out of any significant role in the church’s leadership, doctrinal development and authority structure since these have historically been reserved to or filtered through ordained men.”

“How long can the hierarchy sustain the credibility of a God who wants things this way, who wants a church where women are invisible and voiceless in church leadership, legal and doctrinal discernment and decision-making?” she asked.

McAleese’s speech seemed to represent a shift in strategy for Voices of Faith, which in past years has taken a notably careful tack. While the event has occasionally touched on issues of exclusion inside the church, words like “ordination” and “sexism” have largely been avoided.

One of the organizers for the event said at a press conference March 7 they had decided to allow the Vatican to exert a certain amount of control over speakers in its first four years as a way of establishing themselves and attracting interest around the world.

Lesley-Anne Knight, former secretary general of Caritas Internationalis and a consultant to Voices of Faith, said the group feels like it is better-known now and can strike out on its own.

“Initially, enabling women’s voices simply to be heard in the Vatican from a very wide diversity was probably key,” Knight said. “In those initial years, there was also a control, and we knew that. We knew that was part of it.”

“I think the moment has come where we felt there was sufficient support to Voices of Faith from a huge diversity of women for us to say, ‘This is the moment where we will no longer be silenced,’ ” she said.

“It doesn’t mean that there wasn’t a protest at the time,” she said. “But I think we felt establishing Voices of Faith was important enough for us to toe the line to a certain extent to this moment.”

Several of the other speakers at the press conference expressed hope that the Catholic Church will ordain women in the future.

British theologian Tina Beattie said the church “has gone down a catastrophic cul-de-sac in trying to provide coherent theological arguments against the ordination of women.”

“Because I have great faith in the Catholic tradition, I don’t think the church remains stuck in cul-de-sacs, and I have no doubt that under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, the better arguments will prevail, and women will be ordained in the church,” said Beattie, a professor of Catholic studies at the University of Roehampton in London.

Nivedita Lobo Gajiwala, an Indian woman raised by a Hindu father and a Catholic mother, said her parents had not baptized her as a child because they wanted her to make her own decision about her faith. She said she decided not to be baptized, even though she had gone to Catholic school and appreciated the religion.

“I just didn’t see myself in the ordained leaders, and I didn’t see myself in the rules and rituals,” Lobo Gajiwala said. “It felt very different from the reality that I’m chasing as a young woman.”

“I was chasing agency and autonomy and empowerment, and it felt like these celibate men were making my decisions for me, decisions about family planning and domestic violence and sexual abuse … when they didn’t have my experience as a young woman in the world,” she said.

[Joshua J. McElwee is NCR Vatican correspondent. His email address is jmcelwee@ncronline.org. Follow him on Twitter: @joshjmac.]


Full Text of Mary McAleese’s Speech given at the Voices of Faith International Women’s Day Conference on 08 March 2018 at the Jesuit Curia, Rome.

(Download Text as PDF)

“historical oppression of women has deprived the human race of untold resources, true progress for women cannot fail to liberate enormous reserves of intelligence and energy, sorely needed in a world that is groaning for peace and justice”. ( extract from presentation by Professor Maryann Glendon, member of Holy See Delegation to the UN Conference on Women, Beijing 1995)

The Israelites under Joshua’s command circled Jericho’s walls for seven days, blew trumpets and shouted to make the walls fall down. (cf. Joshua 6:1-20). We don’t have trumpets but we have voices, voices of faith and we are here to shout, to bring down our Church’s walls of misogyny. We have been circling these walls for 55 years since John XXIII’s encyclical  Pacem in Terris first pointed to the advancement of women as one of the most important “signs of the times”.

“they are demanding both in domestic and in public life the rights and duties which belong to them as human persons” .[…] “The longstanding inferiority complex of certain classes because of their economic and social status, sex, or position in the State, and the corresponding superiority complex of other classes, is rapidly becoming a thing of the past.”

At the Second Vatican Council Archbishop Paul Hallinan of Atlanta, warned the bishops to stop perpetuating “the secondary place accorded to women in the Church of the 20th century” and to avoid the Church being a “late-comer in [their] social, political and economic development”.
The Council’s decree Apostolicam Actuositatem said it was important that women“participate more widely […] in the various sectors of the Church’s apostolate”. The Council’s pastoral constitution Gaudium et Spes said the elimination of discrimination based on gender was a priority. Paul VI even commissioned a study on women in Church and Society. Surely we thought then, the post-Conciliar Church was on the way to full equality for its 600 million female members. And yes-it is true that since the Council new roles and jobs, have opened up to the laity including women but these have simply marginally increased the visibility of women in subordinate roles, including in the Curia, but they have added nothing to their decision-making power or their voice.
Remarkably since the Council, roles which were specifically designated as suitable for the laity have been deliberately closed to women. The stable roles of acolyte and lector and the permanent deaconate have been opened only to lay men. Why? Both laymen and women can be temporary altar servers but bishops are allowed to ban females and where they permit them in their dioceses individual pastors can ban them in their parishes. Why?

Back in 1976 we were told that the Church does not consider herself authorized to admit women to priestly ordination. This has locked women out of any significant role in the Church’s leadership, doctrinal development and authority structure since these have historically been reserved to or filtered through ordained men.  Yet in divine justice the very fact of the permanent exclusion of women from priesthood and all its consequential exclusions, should have provoked the Church hierarchy to find innovative and transparent ways of including women’s voices as of right and not in trickles of tokenism by tapping, in the divinely instituted College of Bishops and in the man made entities such as the College of Cardinals, the Synod of Bishops and episcopal conferences, in all the places where the faith is shaped by decision and dogma and doctrine.
Just imagine this normative scenario- Pope Francis calls a Synod on the role of Women in the Church and 350 male celibates advise the Pope on what women really want! That is how ludicrous our Church has become. How long can the hierarchy sustain the credibility of a God who wants things this way, who wants a Church where women are invisible and voiceless in Church leadership, legal and doctrinal discernment and decision-making?

It was here in this very hall in 1995 that Irish Jesuit theologian, Fr. Gerry O’Hanlon put his finger on the underpinning systemic problem when he steered Decree 14  through the Jesuits 34th General Congregation. It is a forgotten document but today we will dust it down and use it to challenge a Jesuit Pope, a reforming Pope, to real, practical action on behalf of women in the Catholic Church.

Decree 14 says:

We have been part of a civil and ecclesial tradition that has offended against women. And, like many men, we have a tendency to convince ourselves that there is no problem. However unwittingly, we have often contributed to a form of clericalism which has reinforced male domination with an ostensibly divine sanction. By making this declaration we wish to react personally and collectively, and do what we can to change this regrettable situation.

“The regrettable situation” arises because the Catholic Church has long since been a primary global carrier of the virus of misogyny. It has never sought a cure though a cure is freely available. Its name is “equality”

Down the 2000 year highway of Christian history came the ethereal divine beauty of the Nativity, the cruel sacrifice of the Crucifixion, the Hallelujah of the Resurrection and the rallying cry of the great commandment to love one another. But down that same highway came man-made toxins such as misogyny and homophobia to say nothing of anti-semitism with their legacy of damaged and wasted lives and deeply embedded institutional dysfunction.

The laws and cultures of many nations and faith systems were also historically deeply patriarchal and excluding of women; some still are, but today the Catholic Church lags noticeably behind the world’s advanced nations in the elimination of discrimination against women.
Worse still, because it is the “pulpit of the world” to quote Ban Ki Moon its overt clerical patriarchalism acts as a powerful brake on dismantling the architecture of misogyny wherever it is found. There is an irony here, for education has been crucial to the advancement of women and for many of us, the education which liberated us was provided by the Church’s frontline workers clerical and lay, who have done so much to lift men and women out of poverty and powerlessness and give them access to opportunity.
Yet paradoxically it is the questioning voices of educated Catholic women and the courageous men who support them, which the Church hierarchy simply cannot cope with and scorns rather than engaging in dialogue. The Church which regularly criticizes the secular world for its failure to deliver on human rights has almost no culture of critiquing itself. It has a hostility to internal criticism which fosters blinkered servility and which borders on institutional idolatry.

Today we challenge Pope Francis to develop a credible strategy for the inclusion of women as equals throughout the Church’s root and branch infrastructure, including its decision-making. A strategy with targets, pathways and outcomes regularly and independently audited.
Failure to include women as equals has deprived the Church of fresh and innovative discernment; it has consigned it to recycled thinking among a hermetically sealed cosy male clerical elite flattered and rarely challenged by those tapped for jobs in secret and closed processes. It has kept Christ out and bigotry in. It has left the Church flapping about awkwardly on one wing when God gave it two. We are entitled to hold our Church leaders to account for this and other egregious abuses of institutional power and we will insist on our right to do so no matter how many official doors are closed to us.

At the start of his papacy Pope Francis said “We need to create still broader opportunities for a more incisive female presence in the Church” words a Church scholar described as evidence of Francis’ “magnanimity”. Let us be clear, women’s right to equality in the Church arises organically from divine justice. It should not depend on ad hoc papal benevolence.

Pope Francis described female theologians as the “strawberries on the cake”. He was wrong. Women are the leaven in the cake. They are the  primary handers on of the faith to their children. In the Western world the Church’s cake is not rising, the baton of faith is dropping. Women are walking away from the Catholic Church in droves, for those who are expected to be key influencers in their children’s faith formation have no opportunity to be key influencers in the formation of the Catholic faith. That is no longer acceptable. Just four months ago the Archbishop of Dublin Diarmuid Martin felt compelled to remark that “the low standing of women in the Catholic Church is the most significant reason for the feeling of alienation towards it in Ireland today”.

Yet Pope Francis has said that “women are more important than men because the Church is a woman”.  Holy Father, why not ask women if they feel more important than men? I suspect many will answer that they experience the Church as a male bastion of patronizing platitudes to which Pope Francis has added his quota.

John Paul II has written of the ‘mystery of women’. Talk to us as equals and we will not be a mystery! Francis has said a “deeper theology of women” is needed. God knows it would be hard to find a more shallow theology of women than the misogyny dressed up as theology which the magisterium currently hides behind.

And all the time a deeper theology is staring us in the face. It does not require much digging to find it. Just look to Christ. John Paul II pointed out that:

‘we are heirs to a history which has conditioned us to a remarkable extent. In every time and place, this conditioning has been an obstacle to the progress of women. […] Transcending the established norms of his own culture, Jesus treated women with openness, respect, acceptance and tenderness….As we look to Christ…. it is natural to ask ourselves: how much of his message has been heard and acted upon?’

Women are best qualified to answer that question but we are left to talk among ourselves. No Church leader bothers to turn up not just because we do not matter to them but because their priestly formation prepares them to resist treating us as true equals.

Back in this hall in 1995 the Jesuit Congregation asked God for the grace of conversion from a patriarchal Church to a Church of equals; a Church where women truly matter not on terms designed by men for a patriarchal Church but on terms which make Christ matter.
Only such a Church of equals is worthy of Christ.
Only such a Church can credibly make Christ matter.
The time for that Church is now, Pope Francis.
The time for change is now.

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  1. Eddie Finnegan says:

    Lucky that Archbishop Diarmuid Martin’s revelation that his own views are reflected in Mary McAleese’s challenge to Pope Francis on credible strategy in lieu of warm words didn’t come at the start of the bishops’ Spring Meeting. The loud chorus of the episcopal ‘me too’ movement could have brought the roof of Maynooth’s old Infirmary (Columba Centre) crashing down.

  2. Billy Fulton says:

    At the last ACP conference I attended , Dom Mark Patrick Hederman made the point that there was no way the public statements of the ACP hierarchy could involve consultation of members, because of the rapidity of the reaction to an event. At the time it was pointed out that the ACP had a history of these opinions and they did reflect the membership of the ACP’s values.
    On this particular occasion, however, the ACP has responded without canvassing their members and for that reason, I believe Mark Patrick has been vindicated.
    I for one do not accept that one necessarily has the right to make public statements, attacking the Pope, when one purports to be a devout Catholic. Mary McAleese has been extremely vocal attacking commonly accepted Church doctrine. Does she think that this is acceptable ? I, do not. To talk about a culture of misogyny in the Church is complete nonsense. Of course the Church is slow to change, but there is an absolutely verifiable truth that many women had huge influence on church government without being members of the hierarchy. E.g. Catherine of Siena. The Church carries the burdens of history which prevent most men from having an input into decision making, never mind women. Finally the ordination of women is a theological question, and I’ve yet to see a cogent theological case for women’s orders. When I see women wearing clerical collars, I wonder what’s that about, as I think it is just about the most ridiculous piece of clothing that any Italian brought to Ireland

    1. Mattie Long says:

      In the interests of clarity, fairness, and truth it needs to be clearly stated that what you have claimed is factually incorrect.

      No statement has been issued by the ACP concerning comments made by Mary McAleese.

      A number of articles about this story have been carried on the website.
      But it needs to be clearly stated that the leadership of the ACP have not issued any statement concerning the recent events involving the former President Mary McAleese; neither about the decision by Cardinal Farrell to prevent the ‘Voices of Faith” event of 08 March from taking place on Vatican property, nor the speech given and opinions expressed by the former President.

      As you said Dom Mark Patrick Hederman did, at the AGM, make ‘the point that there was no way the public statements of the ACP hierarchy could involve consultation of members, because of the rapidity of the reaction to an event.’
      It was stated by some who replied to Dom Mark Patrick that the modern world doesn’t always allow time for consultation with all members and ‘It is the immediacy of response that is important’ if we wish to be relevant.
      I am quite sure that members will always make their views known to the leadership and I invite them to do so on our website. The recent regional meetings have clarified how members feel about many issues concerning their lives and ministry.

      Dom Mark Patrick chose as an issue a statement from the ACP leadership welcoming the announcement by Pope Francis shiftng the responsibility of liturgical translations from a Vatican department back to national Conferences of Bishops. There is probably no issue that had been more commented on by ACP members than that of the ‘new missal’. Indeed the leadership of the ACP commissioned a survey of the opinions of all priests, not just ACP members, on this topic. The result, published on 05 June 2014, was overwhelming. 80% favoured the replacement of the New Missal https://www.associationofcatholicpriests.ie/2014/06/results-of-survey-or-irish-priests-on-the-new-missal/

      We are all entitled to our opinions. You are certainly entitled to think that ‘To talk about a culture of misogyny in the Church is complete nonsense.’ But we need to be aware that for many people their experience of church leads them to think that to not talk about a culture of misogyny in the Church is complete nonsense. We could all learn from a respectful discussion about these differing views.
      I accept your right to your view that ‘I’ve yet to see a cogent theological case for women’s orders.’
      Could you accept mine that I’ve yet to see a cogent theological case preventing women’s orders.
      We know that in April 1976 the Pontifical Biblical Commission, having studied the exclusion of women from the ministerial priesthood, stated that;
      “It does not seem that the New Testament by itself alone will permit us to settle in a clear way and once and for all the problem of the possible accession of women to the presbyterate.”
      If scripture is not definitive then there is a crying need for such exclusion to be explained very clearly, and in a way that is reasoned, understandable, and accounts for cultural, societal, and historical influences. I await with interest the report from the commission studying the issue of ordaining women to the order of deacon.
      Finally, I agree absolutely with you regarding the “clerical collar”; without doubt it has to be “the most ridiculous piece of clothing that any Italian brought to Ireland.”
      Mattie Long

  3. Phil Greene says:

    As with most parishes when the PP is on holidays we have priests from neighbouring parishes filling in. About 7 years ago on one such Sunday we had a priest, about 70 ,in age anyway, visit us. This priest was quite charismatic and very young in heart and mind. His homily was all about the role of women in our Church and how they were let down by our Church. He wanted to see change. He wanted women to be recognised for the role they play, and the roles they could play in the future. It was obvious that he had chosen every word carefully, he wanted to make a difference, he wanted women to feel valued. I was mesmerised (it’s sad really that this type of homily is such a rarity). The whole church joined in clapping in appreciation. Very uplifting and memorable.
    So, when I read Billy Fulton @ 3 I do not think of the age of the person , just the mindset.
    I wonder if you only mean the clerical collar on women, or in general.. It is called the “dog collar” or “bird-catcher” I believe in some circles .. ! Now what is that all about!
    Please tell me about a woman in the 20th / 21st century who has had a huge influence on church governance, influence that led to change of doctrine , strategy etc..
    If you and others think the word “misogyny” is not the correct word, then find the word that you can live with. Ask women what word they feel describes the treatment of the powers that be towards them; but let’s keep trying to move towards gender equality at local and strategic level and keep the Faith alive, together.

  4. Paddy Ferry says:

    Mattie@4, well said. In fact, very well said. You covered everything. I immediately thought of the Pontifical Biblical Commission when I read Billy’s “I have yet to see a cogent theological case …” and remembered what was described as “a forensic investigation” it carried out in 1970s into whether there was a case in Scripture for not allowing the ordination of women and, of course, they found none. I know there has been a debate here on the actual meaning of the word misogyny. But, surely, every reasonable and reasonably well informed  person among us can accept that there continues to be  blatant and actual discrimination practised by our church against woman –52% of humankind.
    At a time when virtually  all of the secular world has accepted the principle of gender equality our church’s position in no longer tenable and is, in fact, a great source of embarrassment. I believe it is one of the main reasons –perhaps the main reason–we are witnessing the church die before our eyes.

  5. Sean O'Conaill says:

    Quite obviously it cannot be the denial of ordination to women that is primarily responsible for their inequality in the church – as virtually all males are equally subordinated although eligible for ordination.

    The central problem is the exaggerated status of ‘Holy Orders’ itself, and especially in comparison with Baptism as a ‘qualifier’. Neither women nor men can have their true dignity recognised until this sacramental anomaly is righted.

    Throughout the New Testament it is Baptism, not Holy Orders, that effects the most important change in the ‘being’ of those drawn to Christ – and those chosen for office were originally chosen BY the baptised. It took centuries for this order of precedence to be reversed – by an imperial system of administration.

    What we are seeing in our own time is the complete demystification of Holy Orders as organised by the Tridentine Church of Christendom. A demystified and demoralised male clergy can still not preach charismatically to lay people about the importance of Baptism and the Indwelling Spirit – while the witness given by many women (some of whom contribute here) is far more convincing in that regard – precisely because they are ‘merely’ baptised and NOT yet ordained.

    It is this rebalancing of the significance and prestige of the sacraments that is the most notable feature of the present time. The Holy Spirit is not maintaining a clerical system that tells pre-adolescents that they are Temples of the same Holy Spirit but then expects them to be passive and silent for the rest of their pew lives, males and females together – virtually chained to the Tabernacle as though Jesus had no desire but to stay there.

    Far too much fuss about ordination here, because that is the route to ‘hierarchical power’. Watch: that tree is falling. We need to turn to proper sowing, baptised men and women together. To covet what we don’t have – and only a few could ever get – would be to miss the treasure that is already ours – by Baptism.

  6. Ned Quinn says:


    “the church dying before our eyes”. In other words: “moribund”. The dictionary entry for that word is : not growing or changing; without force or vitality; stagnant; breathing your last. Have we come to this?

  7. Mary Vallely says:

    Baptism, the ‘treasure that is already ours’. Oh well said, Sean O’ Conaill.
    I remember a Cork PP telling me once to call him by his Christian name, that Baptism trumps Ordination. I have often thought about that and how alienating in a way it is to hear young priests insisting on being referred to as ‘Father.’ It is a title they are very proud of but it can convey an attitude of superiority. We are all supposed to be equal in the sight of God AND humankind after all. Why don’t we acknowledge the great gifts of baptism and confirmation and go out and proclaim the Gospel as it says on the tin?

    There is no doubt we need a proper debate/ discussion on the whole meaning of priesthood and how it has changed and must change. We can no longer pretend that the present model of priesthood is fit for purpose. It is no longer relevant and is an unfair burden on those ordained as well as denying many of the baptised a chance to use their own God- given charisms.
    And yes, I believe too that women with a genuine vocation to priesthood would not wish to join this hierarchical clericalist club.

  8. Paddy Ferry says:

    And, of course, Mary, Jesus himself said that we should “not address any man on earth as father, since you have only one Father, and he is in heaven” Mt 23.9. I always wondered why this has been forgotten about so easily all these centuries –infact, probably, for ever.

    This is the bit in Matthew’s gospel which begins with Jesus saying :” Everything they do is to impress people. They enlarge their tefillins and lengthen their tassels.” He was referring to the Sadducees and Pharisees but you cannot help but think of the one and only Raymond Burke when you read that, though, of course, we know Raymond has many followers among our younger priests who are also afflicted with the dressing_- up tendency.

  9. Pádraig McCarthy says:

    You will, I’m sure, be aware of the very neglected report from the 1971 Synod of Bishops on Justice in the World. Particularly relevant is section III on the Practice of Justice, where the Synod did turn attention on the Church itself. Some paragraphs which have yet to be diligently implemented 47 years later –

    40. While the Church is bound to give witness to justice, she recognizes that anyone who ventures to speak to people about justice must first be just in their eyes. Hence we must undertake an examination of the modes of acting and of the possessions and life style found within the Church herself.
    41. Within the Church rights must be preserved. No one should be deprived of his ordinary rights because he is associated with the Church in one way or another. Those who serve the Church by their labour, including priests and religious, should receive a sufficient livelihood and enjoy that social security which is customary in their region. Lay people should be given fair wages and a system for promotion. We reiterate the recommendations that lay people should exercise more important functions with regard to Church property and should share in its administration.
    42. We also urge that women should have their own share of responsibility and participation in the community life of society and likewise of the Church.
    43. We propose that this matter be subjected to a serious study employing adequate means: for instance, a mixed commission of men and women, religious and lay people, of differing situations and competence.
    44. The Church recognizes everyone’s right to suitable freedom of expression and thought. This includes the right of everyone to be heard in a spirit of dialogue which preserves a legitimate diversity within the Church.
    45. The form of judicial procedure should give the accused the right to know his accusers and also the right to a proper defence. To be complete, justice should include speed in its procedure. This is especially necessary in marriage cases.
    46. Finally, the members of the Church should have some share in the drawing up of decisions, in accordance with the rules given by the Second Vatican Ecumenical Council and the Holy See, for instance with regard to the setting up of councils at all levels.

    The full report is available at https://www1.villanova.edu/content/dam/villanova/mission/JusticeIntheWorld1971.pdf
    I cannot find the document on the Vatican website!

  10. Paddy Ferry says:

    Pádraig @11, thank you for reminding us of this. I have taken the liberty of sharing your post with the Scottish Laity Network, a new reform group recently set up here in Scotland –the first and only, I think– set up to in response to some worrying developments in our Archdiocese in the last 6 months. I think they will be very interested in the Practice of Justice. You can follow their deliberations on their Facebook page.
    Happy St. Patrick’s Day, Pádraig to you and to all our fellow contributors. I will be celebrating our feast day at 12.30pm mass in St. Patricks in Edinburgh.

  11. David Zakus says:

    HI Mary and ALL for such a great speech, discussion and message. We sure need this type of thought in Canada. The Catholic Church, my church, needs to change. Keep up the great work!

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